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Jiro_89
11th April 2015, 20:51
TFC doesn't like having multiple worlds in one server. Hard Core world has been plagued with time and config related bugs from the start that have progressively worsened as updates rolled out. We're moving HC to it's own server to eliminate most, if not all, of the bugs associated.

The HC server move is coming up soon and we'd like input from the community on whether we should make the HC group public. This would mean that anybody can come and go from the HC world and overworld without needing whitelist permissions. This also would not change any of the HC rules regarding teleports, hard mode, towny toggles, etc. There wouldn't be any transferring of items between the worlds since they're different servers.

Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas?

To be clear on the server change, the only thing it will affect is where the world is located. Chat will still be integrated between servers.

persianpenname
11th April 2015, 20:56
Personally, I like the whitelist? But that's just me. It's not exactly hard to join HC, and the whitelist could keep trolls or some such out?

chocmerc
12th April 2015, 06:18
Its a tough call for sure. Splitting a server population up like this could very well prove disastrous. However, if it is prone to problems that have no other viable solution, gotta go with what will work. HC is a sort of club for the more serious players, and for players who understand TFC a bit. Opening it up to the public could possibly destroy the sense of community HC players share, causing some to leave it. Since I am a relatively new member, and not part of the HC group (yet), my view is only from the outside looking in, so take all the above with a grain of salt :)

Regards,
Chocmerc

Jiro_89
12th April 2015, 06:46
Its a tough call for sure. Splitting a server population up like this could very well prove disastrous. However, if it is prone to problems that have no other viable solution, gotta go with what will work. HC is a sort of club for the more serious players, and for players who understand TFC a bit. Opening it up to the public could possibly destroy the sense of community HC players share, causing some to leave it. Since I am a relatively new member, and not part of the HC group (yet), my view is only from the outside looking in, so take all the above with a grain of salt :)

Regards,
Chocmerc

Thanks for the input. Though they'll be on separate servers they will still be linked chat wise as they are now. The only proposed change would be that people can come and go at will.

Commiellama2
12th April 2015, 14:06
Would the HC server need to run on separate hardware, or is there not quite enough RAM to share between 2 server?

Jiro_89
12th April 2015, 19:07
Would the HC server need to run on separate hardware, or is there not quite enough RAM to share between 2 server?

They will be on the same machine.

InsaneJ
12th April 2015, 21:35
To be able to link the servers together we're moving from one Minecraft instance to three. It's going to look a little like this:


TFC server with the current Overworld.
TFC Hardcore server with the current Hardcore world.
Lobby server.


The lobby server is going to be regular Minecraft with a small world which will act as a hub between servers. This server will also have mini-games: Spleef arena, Paintball arena, Mob Arena, PVP Arena and parcour. Players will still use the clients (with TFC installed) as they do now.

These server instances will be linked via a single proxy so the experience of traveling between servers will be seamless. You only have to connect to 1 server (tfc.happydiggers.net:4000) and can travel to the others from there. You will be able to travel between servers using commands or by using portals.

The Lobby server serves several purposes. It will allow us to have a fallback server if one of the TFC servers crashes. It gives players more, hopefully, interesting things to do. It serves to draw attention to the fact that we have 2 TFC servers running. One regular, one hardcore.

The proxy server will also allow us to cache Minecraft player sessions for when the Mojang servers go down. This will allow players to connect to our server as long as they have logged in there before and are still using the same computer while the Mojang servers are down.

This setup is going to cost us more resources than we are currently using. We're moving from one 10GB Minecraft instance to two 6GB TFC instances and one 2GB instance for the Lobby. We can switch RAM between instances as needed. We're hoping that having two non-whitelisted servers will balance player bases, and RAM usage, between the servers better.

Commiellama2
12th April 2015, 21:41
Will inventory not carry across to the hub server, to maintain no trading/headstarts for people heading to hardcore?

InsaneJ
12th April 2015, 21:46
People who are voting. Would you mind elaborating a little? You are of course welcome to your opinion, I'm just curious what you guys are thinking.

Things that come to my mind are:

It's a bit more effort to join Hardcore and that by itself will keep the world 'cleaner' with regard to the amount of towns.
The world is huge. Having a lot of small towns shouldn't matter much.
People signing up for these forums to apply to the whitelist may allow us staff and you, the players, to have more interaction with players.
Hardcore players have a bit of an elite status on the server. They have to put in more effort. I could understand why you guys would want to keep that.
If players are able to join the Hardcore world with the option of going back might allow more players to give it a try. Who knows, they might like it. And if they don't, then they can continue playing in the regular world. Right now it's an all or nothing kind of deal. We've seen players leave the server because they choose poorly.


Please let me know what you think :)

InsaneJ
12th April 2015, 21:56
Will inventory not carry across to the hub server, to maintain no trading/headstarts for people heading to hardcore?

Inventories for each server will be separate. Meaning you can't take stuff from one server to another. This is something we will never change.

So yes, trading in Hardcore will remain the way it is now.

Gregory_0305
12th April 2015, 22:11
I think having a lobby would be a great idea

Pernix_8D
13th April 2015, 04:07
The only real concern I have with it is that, as J said, the amount of towns on the server will most likely sky-rocket. Which is usually fine, but when they're all concentrated around spawn (which they most likely will be, as evident on previous worlds, as well as HC's lack of teleportation), that's when its a problem for HC. These towns and their residents will just completely annihilate any of the resources around spawn.

It's not a problem in any way for already established players, but newly joined players will be hard-pressed to find resources in that area, and will have to walk a fair distance to get at relatively untouched land. I suppose that just adds another level of challenge for the willing player, but yeah, it may become a problem. I also suppose knowing who's going to be playing on the server is a nice luxury that the white-list provides. Helps keep track of people. :P

InsaneJ
13th April 2015, 14:03
What about adding a timer for players who join the HC server?
Something like: they have to have logged 72 hours before they are allowed to create a town of their own?

This would also require some sort of process to allow newbies to join a town in HC pretty soon. We could setup a server town that all people in HC join automatically and have several plots there up for sale with a rule that new players may claim 1 plot or something like that. Just to get them started before they join another town or start their own.

Rainnmannx
13th April 2015, 14:31
Allowing people to go between worlds would be good, so if one day you feel like doing it hc, and others you may not. This would make the community tighter since you can travel between them, they wouldn't be split in that regards.
I dont think HC will get flooded with the change, someone may try it, but unless you really like it wont stay long.
Especially since they can switch back.
A timer would be good if it's not to difficult to do.
Even with out it, sure, spawn may have a bunch of towns around it, and will make it hard if people choose to stay close to spawn, that's hard core ;), so far most people in hc are a bit away from spawn, don't think many will go to far away from spawn that don't like hc.
I think it would be easier on the staff, though an admin would probable have to answer that.

Osifron
17th April 2015, 03:38
I voted yes, but only if the HC world borders are expanded. I will agree with the earlier sentiment that splitting the community can be bad here.

If you can really implement a timer so a person couldn't create a new town after a few days then I think that will really help with the spawn area being crowded/stripped of resources. There are many people who seem to join the server and once they die, they leave and never come back. This would at least prevent these people from leaving 1-man towns everywhere.

Jiro_89
17th April 2015, 05:07
I voted yes, but only if the HC world borders are expanded. I will agree with the earlier sentiment that splitting the community can be bad here.

If you can really implement a timer so a person couldn't create a new town after a few days then I think that will really help with the spawn area being crowded/stripped of resources. There are many people who seem to join the server and once they die, they leave and never come back. This would at least prevent these people from leaving 1-man towns everywhere.

Generally, our rules are in place to prevent griefing and theft no matter how long it has been. But HC is a special case, and if 1 man towns become an issue we can always activate Towny's purge option that will remove all inactive residents/towns after, let's say, 30 days of inactivity. Of course in order for that sort of option to be successful we would have to say it's okay to take things that are unprotected which opens up a new set of doors we closed on most of our servers. But on paper, this is something that we can do.

In regards to the world border, we can always expand the border if needed. The thing is, with a game style like HC without teleports, not many people have gotten that far. Granted it's a whitelisted world so unwhitelisting it would unleash the gates of players into it, but I still don't think the border would be an issue for a very long time. HC world is nearly as big as the last B78 server was. If I remember correctly, it was 35-40k x 35-40k and HC is 30k x 30k. To put it in perspective, on the last server with 10k unique players on the server, we couldn't even boast 50% usage of the world and its resources, that would be an overestimation. And that's with teleports of course.

Metamorfos
17th April 2015, 11:56
I actually voted "No" because to be able to whitelist, you need to register to this forum. This makes people aware that there is a HD site with multiple server topics. It also keeps away the more impulsive players that join for a few minecraft days and then never come back again, leaving their claimed ground to rot for a server's lifetime (a concern shared by Pernix but solvable as Jiro stated).

On the other hand, I kinda like RX's idea (which would be a no-whitelist case):


Allowing people to go between worlds would be good, so if one day you feel like doing it hc, and others you may not. This would make the community tighter since you can travel between them, they wouldn't be split in that regards.


I must say I've been wanting to visit towns in the regular world just to see them, but I can't because I'm in HC. Seeing as inventory wouldn't carry over between worlds nor would teleports, I actually like his idea.
It's also evident that removing the "obstacle" that is a whitelist application would encourage more players to do HC which would no doubt be good for activity.

So yeah ... yes or no, I don't really know. I hate choosing :p

Heptagon_ru
17th April 2015, 14:41
My "YeS" voting had been an example of an impulsive selfish action :elmo: :)
It was interesting to see how people started a mass migration to HC world, even without much TFC/HD experience, so I was interested to see how the situation would be when no application is needed. Will ghost towns become a problem, will the type of coming people change significantly, etc. Since I don't plan to join HC soon ... :)

Jiro_89
17th April 2015, 18:44
Votes are in:
Yes - 7
No - 8

I would like to thank everyone that voted and took the time to write up their feelings on the matter. Since there wasn't a decisive consensus on the subject I think it would be best to keep the white-list in effect. We can always debate the matter further or re-examine the proposal at a later date.

So for now, HC will remain white-list only. After the server migration HC members will be allowed to play the regular world and HC world. Stay tuned for news on the Lobby server and HC server migration, it should be happening soon.