Teleport Cooldown Times

[Flobilbo]

I have played on this server for over a year now and in that time I have advanced in this mod and become attached to the community but forcing people to donate to have all of the bloody things they had on the old server is not the way to go about getting donations. A five minute cooldown on the teleport command is outrageous and all it accomplishes is wasting all of our time and ticking people off. Also even though the Minecraft EULA prohibits granting game changing perks to players no server or plugin, addon, or anything of the sort adheres to this rule. Technically you aren't even allowed to alter the code of the game, this includes world generation, so any content creator or any server that uses this content is in violation of the EULA so please stop using that excuse. Our community is a wonderful one but in most cases it is a kid that doesn't have a job or means of earning money just to donate to this server; all we are asking is that you please either decrease the cooldown to at least 3 minutes on the main server or add in these donation perks to the freebie server because, like I said, almost no server adheres to this rule and it would be impossible for the Mojang team at Microsoft to shut down all of the servers that break this rule. Also I know that your server runs on donations and the volunteer work of the staff but your server did quite well when compared to the other modded servers; you have to consider that Minecraft is in a decline and people are looking for the next big thing.

[Rainnmannx]

These servers do not run on donations, if that where true it would have been gone a long time ago.
These servers do quit well due to J, the staff, some great people in the community, and the rules to make it a pleasant place to be.
Like we said on the server, there have been roughly 35 donors since 2014, out of probably 7000+ people who have used the server.
So saying people will donate to a great server doesn't hold water...
You do not have to use the server, there is no one forcing anyone to do so, if people want a server like it was by all means make one yourself.
There are plenty of things to do to fill up 5 minutes, and not be wasting time.
The EULA is based on how we interpret it and what we are comfortable with doing, that's not for anyone else to decide.
If you want to do it differently, like i said earlier, by all means make your own server.

[Jiro_89]

I have played on this server for over a year now and in that time I have advanced in this mod and become attached to the community but forcing people to donate to have all of the bloody things they had on the old server is not the way to go about getting donations.


We are not forcing people to donate. We have an entire server devoted to allowing people to play TFC without donating. If you don't want to donate that's perfectly fine. If you can't handle playing in a community that has donations for upper tiered servers then feel free to find a different server to play on. We don't depend on donations to run our servers.

You want to know why we have donations for upper tiered servers now? Because I was sick of watching thousands of people play our minecraft servers and not contribute in the slightest to help InsaneJ despite all the talk of how great of servers we have. People spend thousands of hours collectively playing on these servers and very, very few consider donating. InsaneJ has graciously continued supporting his servers with his own money and time so that you can enjoy a free server experience. And for those that have contributed to our servers before the new donation servers no matter the amount, I'm very grateful and appreciate them for taking an active role in helping InsaneJ with the server bills.



A five minute cooldown on the teleport command is outrageous and all it accomplishes is wasting all of our time and ticking people off.

Again, if you don't like it feel free to find a different server. I'm in full support of the longer cooldown as it prevents people from abusing the teleportation to escape danger or teleport around the map 60 times a minute. This also helps with server load considerably by preventing people from skipping around the map loading many tile entities. Double whammy.



Also even though the Minecraft EULA prohibits granting game changing perks to players no server or plugin, addon, or anything of the sort adheres to this rule.

I dare you to make a server with game changing donor perks and advertise it on the TFC forums. Kitty will shut you down so quick you won't even know what happened.



Technically you aren't even allowed to alter the code of the game, this includes world generation, so any content creator or any server that uses this content is in violation of the EULA so please stop using that excuse.

We're not using any excuses. People are allowed to, and encouraged to, use mods with Minecraft. People are not allowed to have game changing perks that are bought. So guess what? We have servers you can donate to play on. Everybody on each server does not gain anything that changes gameplay based on how much you donate or don't donate.



If you've bought the Game, you may play around with it and modify it by adding modifications, tools, or plugins, which we will refer to collectively as "Mods." By "Mods," we mean something original that you or someone else created that doesn't contain a substantial part of our copyrightable code or content. When you combine your Mod with the Minecraft software, we will call that combination a "Modded Version" of the Game.




Our community is a wonderful one but in most cases it is a kid that doesn't have a job or means of earning money just to donate to this server; all we are asking is that you please either decrease the cooldown to at least 3 minutes on the main server or add in these donation perks to the freebie server because, like I said, almost no server adheres to this rule and it would be impossible for the Mojang team at Microsoft to shut down all of the servers that break this rule.


Again, go ahead and advertise a server with game changing donation perks on the TFC forums. "Almost no server adheres to this rule.." Is a flat out lie and we've seen several servers get shut down for not following the Minecraft Eula. Ever hear of Outlast TFC? They broke the Eula. Guess what? They were shut down for a time until they stopped breaking it.



Also I know that your server runs on donations and the volunteer work of the staff but your server did quite well when compared to the other modded servers; you have to consider that Minecraft is in a decline and people are looking for the next big thing.

You don't have any idea how much it takes to run the servers with the quality and sizes we do and guess what? We have gotten very, very little in donations over the multiple years HappyDiggers has been running. It has only kicked up in the last month because of our new donation servers. The servers not only require a sizable amount of money to keep afloat from month to month, but also an enormous (yes enormous) amount of time from staff who volunteer that time for free to help keep your gaming experience running smooth.

How is it unreasonable to ask for donations to help our server owner with the fees he takes on all by himself? And how is it also unreasonable to reward players for helping us help the server owner with his bills reguarding the servers? I watched you and LadyZ in game spend a fair amount of time talking about how terrible our new policies were and how "they aren't even thinking about us". Well hey, don't play on our servers. We spend all our time on here "thinking about you" by fixing every single problem that crops up, making sure the servers are running like they should, banning players that cause trouble on the servers such as griefing, theft, and bad language, etc. For once in the last 6 years we're asking players to consider "us" for once and help directly by contributing to the servers.

[LarsonPacific]

Yep. What they said.

Nobody receiving any service for free, no matter what that service is, has any right to complain about the service they receive, and absolutely no right whatsoever make demands.

Life lesson: In such circumstances, you will be far more successful making benevolant requests. Flattery and positivity will get you much farther in life than threatening litigation and making demands. ;)

[InsaneJ]

I understand that you feel upset that things have changed for you. However as you can see our staff members feel very strongly about the fact that well over 10.000 players have played on our TFC servers and only a handful have made any donations. In fact the majority of donations were made by staff members. Not counting those we have received 500 euro in donations over the past year.

To be clear, 500 euro is a lot of money. However just running our servers costs around 130 euro / month. And that's only because we are using our own expertise in hardware and running servers to pull that off. If we were to rent our servers like most server owners do, then the cost would be around 500 euro / month. So looking at donations alone, there's just no way to justify running our servers. Yet here we are, still running our servers. Still getting our servers full of awesome players :)


you have to consider that Minecraft is in a decline and people are looking for the next big thing.
No, we really don't. We have always run the servers the way we thought was best. And the result is a community of friendly people who are generally nice to play with on our servers.

As you may have gathered by the reactions posted above, our staff members feel very strongly about the issue. They really don't like that thousands of players enjoy our servers but aren't willing or capable of helping out financially. I understand that a lot of people can't or won't donate. That's fine. I will always try to keep a large, non-whitelisted public server for everyone to play on. That won't change. This time around however we are trying to give generous players a huge incentive to donate.

I think Galros sums it up quite nicely: (http://happydiggers.net/showthread.php?2163-Possibly-Expanding-Server-Capacity-on-Freebie-Server&p=15381&viewfull=1#post15381)


Getting into the donor servers is cheap, (15 euros for a year).
I totally agree with latyper :)
But I found this information in the forum:

Current plan for pricing:


free means free.
tier 1 €15,- / for as long as we're running Minecraft servers. Access to all the tier 1 servers.

This makes donation even more cheaper :D
So guys - don't hesitate and make a as long as we're running Minecraft servers donation.

Link to donate:
http://donate.happydiggers.net/

Link to the thread "New server plans":
http://happydiggers.net/showthread.php?1856-New-server-plans&highlight=server+plan

Thanks!

[Heptagon_ru]

^^ :)

[LadyZ]

I watched you and LadyZ in game spend a fair amount of time talking about how terrible our new policies were and how "they aren't even thinking about us".

Yes, Jiro, i was telling Flo how i felt kind of the same way, but if you listened to our entire conversation, i also said that i thought you guys were awesome, what you had done was incredible, and that the comment i posted on the TFC forum, i meant every word. I also said that if we had a problem or an issue, you would be wiling to hear what we had to say, if said in the right way, because that is what you do, you care about our experience on this server, and i think that is one of the main reasons this server is awesome.

As far as donating, I WOULD LOVE TO. I have before on other servers that didn't Even impress me, but there were things that they offered that i wanted, so i got them. But because of my financial situation right now, i Can't. However, i was So impressed with what you guys did, i logged on the other night To donate a little something, but the only options now are for the pay-to-play servers and i couldn't.

And i don't think that the people that play on the servers are trying to take you guys for granted, you are offering a server for people to play on. J said that over 10,000 had played on the server but only a handful had donated; that should tell you something. i would guess that the 'handful' were not kids, lower income families, or people who just want to play a great "free" game that is Minecraft. Yes, i know that running a server costs money, and no, i have never done that so i don't know if i could even imagine what it is. I have ran private servers, my own, for friends and i Know that doesn't even come close to what you guys have to do, but all we are saying is maybe find a better way to recoup some of the costs, one that will both bring in residual income and make Everyone happy.

With that said, how about offering a monthly 'package' where the people that play on the Freebie server have the option to pay for more set homes or more outposts for the town, shorter teleport cool-down or something in that nature. If they don't continue to pay, then they don't have those perks. And please keep in mind, that the majority of people that play are kids and young adults, who may not have a lot of money. But that would be money coming in Every month, not just the one-time fee.

I would also like to point out, that the only people who have replied to this post so far, have been staff, with the exception of Galros, and she is now a Donor, which is fine, i'm not saying that there's Anything wrong with that, but there hasn't been anyone, other than me now, that is actually playing on the free server.

And as i said above, i was So impressed with what you guys have And are doing here, i went to the thread on the TFC forum to sing your praises Because i wanted the TFC community to know what a Truly Awesome server this is and it's because of all that you have done for us. I'm not an expert or anything, i just like playing this game, but i honestly believe that the time all of you devote to this server to make it the best, shows, and i wanted them to know that.

[Heptagon_ru]

... how about offering a monthly 'package' where the people that play on the Freebie server have the option to pay for more set homes or more outposts for the town, shorter teleport cool-down or something in that nature. ...
That would be against Mojang Minecraft EULA. People on one server should not get any game-influencing advantages for money.

[azariven]

I believe I should voice out my opinion in this matter that we should remove the timer for all free players.

First, I would really like to thank InsaneJ and all the staff members for hosting and maintaining such an awesome server, it's truly one of the best tfc servers available out there. I'd had much much fun in the past two year on the server and I've also donated my hard earnings to make the server a better place.

Second, I agree with the fact that the server should not be "pay to win" and I'm ok, (but not pleased) that there is a timer on the freebie server. I fully understand that there is a need to prevent spamming teleportation and prevent people from leveraging the teleportation to escape danger.

Ok, with those arguments stated, I would like to raise my point of view. Some times I even get replies like, "if you don't like it, go play on another server" or "if you don't like it, you should shut up about it ". I really don't think this should be the mentality that privilege player should have over normal players. Such words are quite disheartening and pushes people away from the server.

As a donor, every time I talk about the timer, I always get this from other staffs and donors: If you don't like the timer, why on earth don't you play on the donor server???? Well here is why: First, most of the donors are very dedicated players that have a clear idea what they want to build, therefore for the donor server, everyone wants to build their own town. Second, most of the donors are playing TnFC, there are barely anybody on the regular donor TFC server. Playing there is no different compared to playing on single player. Which raises third, the popularity. The most important reason I want to play on the freebie server compare to the donor is its popularity. I have a huge town with about 5-6 dedicated members. None of them is donor and its not my right to force them to donate.

Finally, teleportation IS a mechanic in mc, it's not something that is added to the game which violates any EULA rules. Teleportation has been a part in the HD tfc servers. While yes, teleportation should not be used to escape danger, but no, we shouldn't be forced to wait 5 minutes. It's simply too long. Many older players like me have a job to work and we don't have that much time to play everyday. I think the server or the game's ultimate goal is to let people have fun and enjoy playing. Having to wait 5 minute every time I go grab a sandwich at the freezer, or having to wait 5 minute when I want to meet up with a friend and check out on their builds while supervising my town mates and assist them on various tasks.... 5 minute here 5 minute there.... The wait itself is frustrating, I constantly have to look for something else to do and I never get much progress done.

Staffs and people playing on donor servers don't realize this frustration and see it merely as whinny complaints. But as a donor who play on the freebie server, this is a common complaint across the board and is a subject of discussion raised many times during the last 3 days.

My point is that the result of this 5minute timer will only pushes people away from the server. People donate when they want to, not when they're forced to. When you are able to attract more people to play and offer more fair fun to players, they will be more likely to donate. Taking out something that's already in the game, I believe we will only achieve the contrary.

Thanks for taking your time to read this. Please, if possible, keep the 3 sec stand still but remove the timer (or at least shorten it to be <1min) for all free players.

[azariven]

There are plenty of things to do to fill up 5 minutes, and not be wasting time.


I disagree. If staffs try to administrate on freebie server with the same 5 minute timer too.... you will see what we mean.

With this 5 minute timer, people are more likely to be constraint within their own town. No one like visiting other people's town now. They have to weigh in, is this travel worth it? or am I ending in another 5 minute staring at the sky? We don't want to help people anymore. Traveling to spawn to toss some noob some food? Heck no, that's 5 minute of my life you're talking about. Trading in small quantities? Heck no that's another 5 minute of my life. Even our daily lives are effected. Going to the freezer to get food? 5minute wasted. Going to ark to get items? 5 minute wasted.

While yes, teleportation should not be abused to escape danger, having to wait 5 minute does more harm than good.

I would suggest a good balance is 30s to 1min.

--------------------------------------
Please don't say "or you can have no tp", because we do have the hc server. Some people like hc, some people don't
Please don't say "or you can play on other servers", because this is just pushing people away.
Please don't say "why not play on donor server", because popularity.

[InsaneJ]

You're making a bunch of faulty assumptions.

Teleports on Minecraft servers are for OP only. Any other kind of teleports are added in by plugins or mods.

Popularity of the donor server is lagging behind that of the Freebie server. This is expected since out of the more than 10.000 players we've welcomed on our TFC servers so far, only 46 have donated and about 15 or so have done so recently enough to become whitelisted on the current, 3 days old, donor servers. This population needs to grow. You can't compare it to a two year old player base from the Freebie server.

People tend to not donate if stuff is free. It's as simple as that. They say our servers are great, and that's it. However now that we've given a great incentive to donate other than a free server, all of a sudden people start donating.

Pushing people away isn't much of an issue it seems. Compare our Freebie server to any of the other public non-whitelisted servers and we're the only server that actually has players on it. Not only that, we've reached player cap for the past 3 days where players couldn't join because the server was full.

That all being said, there is one point in your post I agree with. The 5 minute wait time is too long. I'll change the cool down to 1 minute and see how that goes. So far with the 5 minute cool down server performance has been excellent and steady. If 1 minute causes players to teleport all over the map again like crazy we may increase it again later on.

[Heptagon_ru]

... Finally, teleportation IS a mechanic in mc, it's not something that is added to the game which violates any EULA rules ...

A correction for this minor part, mostly unrelated to your main arguments.

Teleportation we are talking about (/t spawn) is not a mechanic in MC. In vanilla MC a player would tp by Nether portal only about once an hour top. This is by game design. That's your existing mechanic, a very rare event.

In HD TFC it is a feature added by Towny plugin and it significantly increases server load. In HD Regular TFC you want to tp (ideally) once a second sometimes. Exaggerating, but feel the difference. Plus - TFC chunks are much heavier for server to support.
So this TFC/Towny/HD feature is totally different.

Now about the EULA. I was talking about allowing a part of players on one server to pay money and get any game-influencing perks, progress-influencing. Abiility to teleport more frequent than other players does influence game experience. And this is forbidden by EULA.

[+] Opps, J ninjaed me again.

[azariven]

Ok, I'm wrong about the teleportation in vanilla thing. I was sort of used to teleporting around when I play on other servers in vanilla MC that I took it must be a part of vanilla. Please excuse my ignorance.

But Thank you thank you thank you so so so much for reducing the tp timer. I feel like there is light again.

[Jiro_89]

This thread just goes to show that ranting and raving at the staff will NEVER accomplish anything but complete shut down by said staff. Asking for possible changes in a constructive way CAN make solutions and changes. Please don't forget what Larson said, "Nobody receiving any service for free, no matter what that service is, has any right to complain about the service they receive, and absolutely no right whatsoever make demands." We will always consider suggestions and criticisms, we take each one seriously, but we will never consider demands or angry rants.


And thank you for the kind words LadyZ. We never make things to purposefully exclude players, but we understand how it can appear that way. We're trying to go out of our way to reward donating so that players can feel like they're contributing to a great community and get some tangible non game changing results. This is no reflection on players that cannot donate and shouldn't be treated as such. As InsaneJ has mentioned a few times on other threads, donor servers and rewards were in the works for nearly a year now. Remember to keep in mind everybody had a chance to voice their opinions in their inception and many did which is why we have our servers the way we do right now.

[Dourne]

5.00 a paycheck x 2 months = anything you want to do.

[Commiellama2]

While I don't have an opinion of my own on the subject of teleports, I skimmed through some of this and thought of a potential suggestion.

So if teleporting to spawn to give someone free stuff is an issue because of the cooldown, or visiting someone's town to look at something, rather than 1 teleport every 5 minutes would it be better to have 2 teleports per 10 minutes? That gives people a there-and-back option.

Still unsure myself, as too much teleportation increases server load and detracts from game immersion - teleporting back from a mine is easy and convenient but hauling a load back by mule is satisfying too. Sparse hub-based teleports are a good mix but that's another story.

EDIT: Ooh there's a page 2, ignore everything I ever said ever